What if we realized that all anyone wants is the best for their children?  What if we recognized the similarities in each other rather than our differences?  Could this help us find peace and common ground in our varying faith communities? 

Show Notes:

When you think of peace and common ground, what comes to mind?  For Angelina Tucker it is her grandfathers work and her faith. 

Angelina is an accomplished Doctor of Pharmacy specializing in geriatrics.  Yet, it was becoming a mother that helped reacquaint her with her faith. It also motivated her to connect with the inter faith community, write about faith and raising kids for the Fort Worth Mom’s Blog and “advocate for religious freedom for minority groups globally” on Capitol Hill.  WHEW!

A few favorite inspiring take aways from our conversation:

• It is important to build bridges through dialogue and open communication

– It’s okay to ask questions.  Curiosity is a good thing and many people welcome it.

• “At the end of the day, we’re mothers trying to raise our kids, and keep them away from harm and we want the very, very best for them, and we have that in common.”

Links

http://daughtersofabraham-tx.org

https://fortworth.citymomsblog.com/author/angelinatucker/

www.lajnausa.net

Transcript:

Intro: Welcome to “How She Got Here – Conversations with Everyday Extraordinary Women.” It is my belief that every woman has something inside her only she can do. The more we share the stories of other women, who have already discovered their thing, the more it inspires, encourages, and empowers other women to do the same.

Susan:  Hey Pod Sisters, welcome to part two of Daughters of Abraham. Today I’m sharing my conversation with Muslim Daughter of Abraham member, Angelina Tucker. Angelina is originally from Trinidad and Tobago, and found her way to Texas via the University of Florida—Go Gators—and meeting her husband. She is a Doctor of Pharmacy and specializes in geriatrics. She is a mother and also a writer and contributor to the Fort Worth Moms blog. So without further ado, here’s Angelina.

Susan: Hey, Angelina, I am so glad we could chat today. How are you doing?

Angelina: I’m doing great. Thank you for asking. 

Susan: Good. Well, I’m just really excited to have you here with us today. For my audience who doesn’t know you, although some may know you, and we’ll get into that in a little bit. But for my audience who doesn’t know you, tell us a little bit about your backstory, who you are and what you’re up to? 

Angelina: Well, you know, Susan, to tell you the truth I’m just a simple country girl. You know, I was born in a third world country in Trinidad and Tobago on a beautiful Caribbean island. But even then, you know, I could never have fathomed that I would one day live in Texas, or that I would even enter a male-dominated profession, that I would become a Doctor of Pharmacy specializing in geriatrics and be in charge of doing consultations for 13 locations. It’s a dream. You know, at that time, a little girl I couldn’t have fathomed that my faith would take things from an unknown island, a dot in, you know, in the map barely even, to the steps of Capitol Hill to advocate for religious freedom rights for minority groups globally. I would say that I have found the American dream. I have a beautiful family. We live here in Granbury, Texas. I’ve got a flourishing career. And most importantly, my underlying foundation is my faith that got me here today. 

Susan: What a beautiful story. Tell us how you got to the US and then how of all places—you said you’ve been to Capitol Hill as well. Tell us how you ended up in Texas.

Angelina: Well, I was pursuing my Doctor of Pharmacy at the University of Florida. And I was doing a distance education. I always knew that I wanted to get my doctorate. And so I was coming back and forth from Florida to Trinidad, and doing several conferences was very intense weekly lectures. On one of those trips, coming up here, I met a group of folks and I decided that I wanted to come to the US and pursue my dream. And I met my husband. At the time, he was into computers, he was into cell phones and we met and we started a long distance relationship. And eventually, I moved over here and he asked me to marry him. That’s how I moved to Florida. And he’s a Texan by heart. So my Texas cowboy brought me to his home and to tell you the truth, I love it. 

Susan: What a fun and beautiful story.  That is awesome. I love that you call your husband, a Texas cowboy. 

Angelina: Oh, Gosh.  Yeah.

Susan: That is amazing. Well, I know one of the things—how we met was through the Daughters of Abraham. And as you said a minute ago, one of the things that’s most important to you is your faith. We talk a lot on the podcast about figuring out your thing in life, your inner extraordinary. You seem to have really gone back to your roots. What was it that made you go back and rediscover your faith, or reconnect with your faith?

Angelina: Well, I would say that it starts with extraordinary mentors like my grandparents who raised me. My grandfather was actually a very prominent Imam or a leader of a Sunni mosque. But at the age of 60, he decided to convert to the Ahmadiyya Muslim community. And he left that position of prestige. He lost the adoration of many of his followers and his people to follow his heart. He took a band of 10 people and started his own mosque. And very soon after the Ahmadiyya missionary that came from Pakistan was martyred. He was assassinated. And I remember the fear of my grandfather’s life and the life of our family was at stake. But you know, he showed not an ounce of fear instead somehow, he showed like a deeper conviction to his faith, a faith that as a young child of you know, maybe seven, eight, you know, I saw it was unshakable. And it drove his very being it drove his core to define him as a person. And he was this eloquent speaker, and he was always revered in the circles that he was with. And, you know, when he passed away, I felt very driven to continue the work of peace and common ground between faiths that he started. And I think it’s that same faith that I come back to and I hold on today that sort of guided me through the, you know, tornado of obstacles that I faced on a daily basis, it seems.

Susan:  I really appreciate how you put that “peace and common ground,” because that’s definitely one of the things we talk about a lot in Daughters of Abraham. And I find that that’s just a lovely way to learn more about each other, and to be inquisitive about each other’s faiths, and really a way to find commonality. And there really is a lot of commonality, at least between the three Abrahamic faiths: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And I said that in the order that they, you know, kind of showed up on the planet. So, outside your amazing pharmacy career, or pharmaceutical career, you are also a very eloquent and amazing writer. Tell us a little bit about that side of your hobby or side gig, or however you would like to put it, and how you got involved in that. And then how did you become such a beautiful writer, because you really are an amazing writer. 

Angelina: Thank you. Well, honestly, it started where I have this foundation of religion and faith but then, you know, like many youths, you know, I went off to university and I kind of lost my way. And it was only when my grandfather passed away, I got jolted back to reality. And then soon after I became pregnant with a baby girl and I was overjoyed and elated but I was scared and the fear set in and I realized that I was going to be a role model, I had to teach my daughter these morals and values and life lessons. But how was I supposed to do this when I didn’t even know who I was, what were my values. And that’s when I went back to my foundation, to my rock, my faith, and the religion that I was taught as a child, and now kind of looked upon with more mature eyes, and I started researching the meaning behind what I was taught. And in it, I found this kind of, you know, oasis, this spring, that sort of calmed my being and my core, and that’s kind of where it started, for me, my religious and my spiritual journey. And it was then that I became connected with the Ahmadiyya Muslim community in Dallas, and there was a branch in Fort Worth, and so I started attending meetings and going there regularly, because I wanted my children to grow up with the kind of strong religious faith that I grew up with.

And it was there that we started our very first—I was able to put together the very first interfaith symposium for the Fort Worth Women’s Chapter, and that was entitled, “Raising Tomorrow’s Leaders Mind, Body and Spirit” because I was so consumed with raising children and raising my own so that was the very first things that I wanted to talk about. And so we have the Muslim, the Christian and the Jewish women, all come together, talking about their religious teachings with regard to you know, raising kids. And from there, a reporter from NPR Radio found me and she wanted to do an interview with me. And she connected me to the Multicultural Alliance, and then then to Janice Lord and the Daughters of Abraham. And that’s how I became sort of woven into the network of these women of faith. And I mean, each topic we discussed, we appreciate, and we learn the differences between each other, but we also able to unite on a common ground, which makes us stronger in our own faith, it makes us more determined to overcome the violence and the negative rhetoric that we confront in the media every day. And we do this through loving each other through open dialogue and communication by getting to know the other in society. So that’s where the Daughters of Abraham sort of came into my life and gave me new meaning.

Susan: I really appreciate how you said that Daughters of Abraham really has made your faith stronger. It has done the same for me. And I love that it can serve the individual like that, and then serve the body, if you will, not the physical body, but the, you know, body of God. Or, you know what I’m saying, like the people of the world, how it can serve both the individual and then humanity.  I know sometimes…I don’t know if this has happened to you, but sometimes we will have—because we’re not actually in the same Daughters of Abraham group—that sometimes we’ll have a topic come up from month to month or however and it’ll say something like, “Okay, well, how is this demonstrated or talked about or dealt with in your faith?” And it could be something as simple as water? What is the significance of water in your own faith? And how it has made me dig deeper and really think about, “Oh, well, what is the significance of water in my faith?” And in the different like sides of Christianity, you know, we have different denomination so what does water mean to the Catholic? What does water mean to the Methodist? What does water mean to the Baptist? And it runs the gamut, and I would presume that that is the case for you, that you would have to dig sometimes as well.  Is that true?

Angelina: For sure. Yes, definitely. You know, I mean, but just the world, in general, and religion, there’s so many different facets to each topic, such that when, like, you say, a topic is presented to you, you start thinking, “I have no idea what my religion says about this,” so you dig deeper and you research and you’re researching your own faith, and in coming, you find, you know, a wealth of knowledge that you didn’t know existed, and so that definitely makes you stronger in your faith and it makes you appreciate the religion that you belong to. But it also makes you appreciate the other person’s religion as well because you see where they dug deep, and they were able to find this material. And even though it’s different, there’s always that commonality. And I am just amazed every time that, you know, in Islam, we have two tenants, which is “Service to God” and “Service to humanity,” and I find that over and over in every religion. In Christianity, the Reverend talks about it all the time. In Judaism, you know, with the Sikhs,with the Buddhist, it’s the same, it’s the resonance amongst all these women, and I think that is what we need to unite humanity. 

Susan: You’re absolutely right. I read a book recently, actually called Finding Joy. And it was done by Desmond Tutu, who is a Christian minister from Africa, who lived through apartheid and then the Dalai Lama. And just—they are older men now obviously, but great friend—and just seeing their dialogue and how they are able to find peace and commonality amongst their own beliefs. And then even sometimes, because they’re too hilarious old men, poke fun at each other and poke…They’re so close at this point that they can poke fun at each other, and fun at each other’s faith in a very good, light hearted, well meaning way like you would chide a brother or a sister. And I think there’s just a lot to learn there, that the more you learn about people, the more we can come together and like you said, the more peace and comfort we can find. So I really appreciate that. Tell me a little bit about…You are a writer for The Fort Worth Mom’s blog. And I feel like so many major cities now, even smaller towns are having their own Mom’s blog and somehow they’re all connected. How did you get in with the Fort Worth Moms blog? How did you begin writing for them? And talk a little bit about what you’re writing and how that has been received in the Fort Worth community?

Angelina: Well, part of our mission, if you will, like you said, we talked about, you know, finding the common ground. And the founder of our community, Mirza Ghulam Ahmadfounded our community in 1889, and he declared almost 100 years ago, that the age of religious warfare is over, the sword is replaced by the pen, which means that we believe in building bridges through dialogue, through open communication, just like we’re doing right now. He authored many, many books. And so this is become our way where we fight extremism and violence through education. And we feel that people fear what they don’t know. And that’s fear kind of leads to hatred, a community being marginalized, you know, isolated, that leads to violence, radicalization and extremism. So we feel like getting to the root of the problem is basically education because people fear what they don’t know, and that is what my writing is about.

And I came about in my writings, honestly, because I love books. My mom, actually, she was a very avid reader of medical thrillers, Robin Cook and Espionage, I got into that reading, and I loved it. She would barely buy a book before I would try and grab it before she read it, and try and finish it. And my grandfather had this amazing library collection of religious book, not just Islamic but like the The Bhagavad Gita and reviews of different religions, and he can quote versus from these books and from the Bible, and he was very well read, you know, sort of unmatched on the podium as well. He was a great orator, a wonderful speaker. And so that’s kind of where my writing came from, and I’m inspired by trying to counter this violence by peace with love, and show a perspective of a Muslim woman living in America today, the challenges that we face, but at the same time showing that the challenges we face is the same as the challenges that a Christian or a Jewish mother would face in today’s society, at the end of the day, we’re mothers trying to raise our kids, and keep them away from harm and we want the very, very best for them, and we have that in common.

One of my first pieces for the Forth Worths Mom’s blog was  “Glitter to Calm the Jitter,” you know, which was my first day of dropping my little girl off to kindergarten and how traumatic that was, as a parent to leave  your daughter and you know, sort of walking away, looking at her with her, you know, sad eyes and wanting to just rush up and hug her and take her back home.  And I knew that every other parent was feeling the same way, you know, I stopped and I realized that it wasn’t just me it was all the other mothers in the room were feeling the same way. And that kind of put me back into perspective again, that, yes, I’m the only woman in the room wearing a hijab. Yes, I’m fearing from my daughter but so are the other mothers, you know, they weren’t wearing a hijab, but they also fear for their children as well and I felt sort of bonded to them and to each other by just that one feeling, just by that one raw emotion. And that is similar amongst all of us. So I want to present to the community, the struggles of a Muslim woman, and that is similar to everyone else, that maybe they can bring humanity to the other. Maybe they can, you know, see us as part of mainstream society as people wanting to help the community and be a part of it. 

Susan: Well, I really appreciate you sharing all of this with our listeners, because I know not all of our listeners are involved with interfaith work. If someone isn’t involved in interfaith work, no matter their religion, do you have a suggestion of how would be a good way for them to get involved if they’re interested in it? And maybe if they’re not interested in it, I don’t know what the question would be. 

Angelina: I get what you’re saying. And I think for those who are interested and are ready to make that step, then it would definitely be to please come to Daughters and Abraham meeting. You know, we’re on the internet. You can Google us Daughters of Abraham, and there are four different…Correct me, Susan, isn’t there four different groups?

Susan:  I think you’re right.

Angelina: There are two Forth Worth groups. There is a morning group that meets the last Wednesday of every month at 10am. And there’s an evening group that meets I think, on Thursday, Thursday evening, for the third Thursday evening, I think, and then there’s one in Colleyville as well. And so definitely come to Daughters of Abraham. You don’t have to say anything, you don’t have to say a single word, you can…

Susan: Absolutely.

Angelina: You can feel the atmosphere, you’re not pressured to say anything. I mean, if you don’t want to talk to anybody, you don’t have to, even though you’re probably wrapped up in a hug. And you can’t help but smiling because everybody else is and it’s just contagious. But you’ll feel the warmth of the environment. And you’ll definitely want to be a part of this group, woman of faith, women of strength, you know, woman who wants get out there and make a difference in this world. And for those of you who are not quite ready to make that step, I would say please jump on to my blog page, www.fortworthmomsblog.com and read some my articles, you can even make a comment, you can ask a question under the article, and I’d be happy to respond to you. Some people feel safer behind the screen of a computer and that’s okay. You know, feel free to ask a question. But do something. If there is an angst in you that you want to learn, you want to know more, but you are afraid that is okay because courage is overcoming that fear. It’s not the absence of it. So please jump on there, leave a message for me and I would be happy to respond. If you want to learn more about Muslims or who we are, there’s another website called www.lajnausa.net. And you can jump on there and see all the different activities that the Muslim women are doing locally and on a national level, you know?

Susan: Yeah. And I would also say, if you’re not in the Dallas, Fort Worth area, I know all over this country, there are interfaith gatherings that are happening. I know the church I’m currently a member of, they have interfaith gatherings every now and again, and it’s co-gender, it’s not a single gender. So if you’re a man happening to listen to “How She Got Here; Conversations with Everyday, Extraordinary Women.”  Those exist as well. So it may take some digging on the internet. Again, you can always feel free to reach out to me and I can try to help you find something in your community. Sometimes it’s a little difficult to find it. But they’re there in so many pockets. You can find your people, if you will, who are interested in interfaith work. So yes, but yes, if you’re here locally in the Dallas, Texas area, please, please come to the Daughters of Abraham meeting. I want to jump out something totally outside the box real quick, because you mentioned this earlier that you were an avid reader, what are you reading right now?  Or how many…What books are you reading? Because sometimes I’m guilty of reading a few books at a time.

Angelina: Right. Well, actually, you know, surprisingly enough, I’ve got this book on Ronald—on the President, it’s called For Presidents, and it’s written by an ex Secret Service member, and he writes it in such a way that is very comical, you start learning a little bit about each of the presidents and, you know, things that you wouldn’t otherwise, you know, come to the media. So it’s quite funny, but it’s also very informative. And so I find myself looking at history books now, which is a big change from my medical thriller and espionage days.  I guess as life changes, your taste changes, I don’t know but I’m very wrapped in it. It’s called Four Presidents.

Susan: Well, I’ll have to look that up because I haven’t heard of that one, and that does sound pretty amazing that it was written by a former Secret Service agent, because so many times they, you know, mums the word, they don’t talk a lot about it. So I would really like to know how some of those presidents took their eggs in the morning. 

Angelina: Yeah, for sure. And then I just finished this book called Jerusalem. And it’s really good. It’s written by Karen Armstrong. And it was done once for a book club at the Daughters of Abraham but I didn’t, I admit, I didn’t read it at that time and so I’m just finishing it. And it’s a very intense book about how each of the faiths, you know, the importance of Jerusalem to each one of the faiths, and that was able to… I was invited by one of the TCU lectures to come and lecture on that topic. Well, as well as Muslim woman living in America. So that was another avenue of advocacy that I was able to get involved with. That was a very enriching and enlightening for me.

Susan: You lectured at TCU? That’s amazing. Holy cow!

Angelina:  I was invited. And it’s actually through the Daughters of Abraham, they reached out to them, and then they reached out to me, and so I was able to go. The first time I was a panel of three women and we talked about, you know, Muslim woman living in American, sort of similar to what I’m talking about today, some of the advocacy things that we’re doing in the community to try and show you know, engender peace and then again, about Jerusalem. So that was very, very interesting. 

Susan: Yeah. Go ahead. I’m sorry. 

Angelina: And I wanted to touch on…I know, you asked me earlier about Capitol Hill. 

Susan: Yeah, thank you for bringing that back around. Yes. 

Angelina: And that was amazing. You know, part of our communication is engaging our lawmakers. So I was part of educating others. And I was very humbled to be a part of a delegate of 80 woman from 17 chapters throughout the United States. We flew to Washington, DC on Capitol Hill and we met with several state and Congress representatives, and in the order to advocate for religious freedom for minority groups globally. And in order for them to help us support our “loyalty to nation” campaign. So that was pretty amazing to see all these women, you know, wearing hijab on the eve of 9/11 walking to Capitol Hill trying to advocate for peace. It was very empowering. And it was an amazing experience. 

Susan: It was called “The Loyalty to Nation Campaign.”

Angelina: Yes. And that kind of came out of the 2015 San Bernardino shooting that occurred, where we as Muslim women became really disturbed that a woman was radicalized to perform acts of terror. So we as mothers started a campaign called “Loyalty to our Nation,” where we became really committed to teaching the youth of our nation that loyalty is not just in the words that you speak, but in your actions by serving and integrating into our community. Our Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, of that love of nation is part of faith, and our leader Mirza Masroor Ahmad currently resides in London has told us that, you know, irrespective of where you were born, because we are a large immigrant community, irrespective of where you’re born, your loyalty lies in the country that you reside, and that immigrants should remain entirely faithful to their adopted nation and should use all of their abilities to help their country advance and prosper. So that is our agenda and that’s how we go about, you know, promoting that campaign. 

Susan: How cool is that, that something so really phenomenal, could come out of something so horrific? And I’m really sorry that that happened. I’m sorry for the Muslim community, I’m sorry for the American community. It just…It makes me so sad. And it really goes back to what you said, about education, and how just educating each other, not only on your own faith, but about other faiths, and finding the common ground as often as possible. Because like you said, we are really all at the end of the day just trying to do what’s best for our kids. And surely we can all do that together. 

Angelina: Yeah. Agreed. 

Susan: I have one more question before I let you go. And everything that we’ve out, I’ll just say it now, everything that we have mentioned here, websites and people and books to look up, I’ll make sure to link that in the show notes on the website after all of this is said and done. But what is—actually, two last questions—what is the one question that you get most often from, I would presume non Muslim people, about your religion? 

Angelina: I would say it’s the hijab. Why do I wear the scarf? What’s the meaning of the scarf? I get that quite a lot from people where there’s this misconception that we wear the hijab out of oppression or male dominance, and especially what is being advertised in the media with the Middle East, you know, people think that it’s due to an oppression. And so that’s a huge area that I can help to clarify where the hijab is a head covering. It’s actually, you know, a sign of modesty and dignity and it helps to…It is written in the Holy Karan, where a woman is supposed to cover her head and that intimate chest area. And it helps to prevent, you know, being cast as a sex object, to be viewed at with dignity and respect, rather than to be viewed for how you look, to be viewed for your merit and what you say rather than what we look like. And that’s the outer covering of hijab also extends to your inner heart, where to hijab helps us to, you know, shield ourselves from immorality and negativity and hate and treachery, and make ourselves into someone that we want to be. And it didn’t mean that we are this person now. I tell people, it’s not like a superhero cape, I put it on, and then I’m this wonderful person. I wish. No, it’s not. It means that I’m just, you know, I’m in progress. I’m trying to get to my goal of being this person. This is who I want to be. And I’m trying every day when I put this on to be that better person.

Susan: Well, thank you for sharing that. I think oftentimes, especially in the Christian faith, I think we forget that there are Christian denominations that used to cover their heads for different reasons, some of the same reasons, some different reasons. But all of it was with respect to God. I know, the Catholic Church, obviously, nuns still cover their head. I remember the pictures of Jackie Onassis—Jacqueline Kennedy at the time when she went and met the Pope, you know, she covered her head as she walked into the Vatican. And I think sometimes we forget that. And sometimes it’s easy to, again, judge or misconstrue what you don’t understand. So thank you for sharing that.

Angelina: If you think of people like Mary, Mother of Jesus, Mother Teresa, Julian of Norwich, and Malala. When you look at those women, you think strength, you think, dignity, honor, and, you know, all of that good things that go with those women? And then when you’d want to emulate someone you’d want to be? 

Susan: You’re absolutely correct. Now, last question, is there anything I have missed? Or is there anything you wanted to chat about or share that I forgot to ask? 

Angelina: Well, we’ve actually recently acquired our building, a mosque at 2801 Miller Avenue in Fort Worth.

Susan: Congratulations. 

Angelina: And I’m very excited. We had our Fort Worth Chapter for the last eight years, and we did not have an actual building so now it’s just all formalized, we’ve got a building there. I mean, we’re part of the global organization, but we had just started our chapter. And there, every Wednesday, we have a program called “Coffee Cake and true Islam.” So those of you in the Fort Worth area who just, you know, never met a Muslim or just have questions, it’s very informal, there’s no agenda, you can come by and just ask your question, coffee and cake would be provided for you, and we can chat in a very informal setting. And it’s just part of our “Ask a Muslim” campaign and reaching out to the community, and trying to, you know, show that we’re here and we’d like to spread the message of peace.

Susan: Well, that is awesome. And I will make a note of that in the show notes as well. Angelina, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your story and sharing a little bit about your faith. And how you’ve gotten connected into interface and how you got to Texas. It’s a beautiful story. And just keep writing and keep doing what you’re doing because it’s amazing. And I’m just happy to know you. 

Angelina: I appreciate that. And I really, really do. I hope that that maybe some of my words will we reach someone and be able to change their heart or help them to reach out in their community. 

Susan: Yes, ma’am. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, friend, I will chat with you soon. 

Angelina: Okay, thank you, Susan. Have a good day. Goodbye. 

Susan: Thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you’ve enjoyed our two-part episode on Daughters of Abraham, and that it has inspired encouraged you. If you haven’t had a chance to listen to part one, you can find it over at howshegothere.com. How She Got Here, can also be found on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. And while you’re there, don’t forget to hit subscribe. I would also really appreciate it if you would give us a rating and review, as it makes it easier for others to find. Until next time, I’ll see you soon. 

Daughters of Abraham Part 1

What happens when a bunch of Jewish, Christian and Muslim women get together to talk about their respective faiths?  A lot of laughing, crying and really good eating.  The Daughters of Abraham are forging friendships that might surprise you.

Show Notes:

What if we could figure out a way to come together over our similarities rather than be consumed by our differences? 

We all handle life altering moments differently.  After 9/11, Janice Harris Lord remembered what her son Steve had said after coming back from Desert Storm. “People who can pray together ought not to be killing one another.”  With that thought as her guide she sought out a way to connect the women of the three Abrahamic faiths (Jewish, Christian and Muslim women) and from this The Daughters of Abraham was born.

Does Daughters of Abraham recognize the differences in the three faiths?  Absolutely!  However, the focus is placed on similarities with open hearts and minds.  Janice and Dawn both go on to say their faith has been strengthened thanks to this group and that a questioned faith is a deeper faith.

A few of my favorite take aways:

– Getting to know people on an individual level promotes understanding and helps stamp out “othering”

• It’s okay to ask questions.  Curiosity is a good thing and many people welcome it.

–  Sisterhood can come in all shapes and sizes.  It does not recognize boundaries of age or faith.  These differences can even make the bond that much stronger and brighter.

Links:

Daughters of Abraham – website

Daughters of Abraham – How to start an interfaith group

Daughters of Abraham North Texas – Facebook

Daughters of Abraham DFW – Facebook

Transcript:

Intro: Welcome to “How She Got Here – Conversations with Everyday Extraordinary Women.” It is my belief that every woman has something inside her only she can do. The more we share the stories of other women, who have already discovered their thing, the more it inspires, encourages, and empowers other women to do the same.

Susan: Hey Pod Sisters, I am really excited to share this week’s episode with you. It will be a two part series discussing how Jewish, Christian and Muslim women come together to learn about each other’s faiths and break down barriers, creating the opportunity for open dialogue to better understand those that believe different than you, often even strengthening your own faith. This week, we will be speaking with founder of Daughters of Abraham, Janice Harris Ford, as well as Christian coordinator, Dawn Anderson. And then next week we’ll be chatting with Muslim daughter Angelina Tucker. Per the daughters of Abraham website, from the beginning the women in Daughters of Abraham were committed to a participatory democratic structure rather than forming a nonprofit organization, which entailed a vertical structure with officers. Responsibilities have been shared by each faith. The monthly gatherings rotate from Synagogue to Mosque to Church with the host faith, providing a discussion facilitator and light refreshments. While there has been an occasional presenter such as a Holocaust survivor giving a personal account of her experience, the format for meetings is open discussion of the topic. Topics have included beliefs, rituals, symbols, and traditions, such as those surrounding marriage, birth, and death. Specific faith related topics have even included prayer, forgiveness, salvation, and others. So without further ado, here is Janice and Dawn.

Well, Janice and Dawn, thank you so much for joining me today on the show. As I told the guests in the interview, you guys are part of the Daughters of Abraham. And that’s kind of what we’re going to be talking about today. Janice and Dawn, we just really want to talk about how Daughters of Abraham came to be, what the goals were, and all of that. So Janice, if you could start us off, tell us how Daughters of Abraham got started.

Janice: Sure. I need to preface that with a little bit of family history, just so you understand that as we come into this piece. Our family has always been very open in terms of just about everything. We have people of different faiths in our family, we have folks of different color who have been adopted into our family. We have family members from out of the country. So we are kind of a family that didn’t have to stop and work through prejudice as much. But a key piece in that was when our son went to Desert Storm, a graduate of Texas A&M, where he was a philosophy major, a good Christian theological boy wanting to learn more about philosophy, and he was also in the Marine Corps. So, you know, if you want something to make you crazy, put those two things together. And that’s where he was.

Dawn: Don’t forget the preacher’s kid.

Janice: Yes, yes. Having to…Well, choosing to be in the Marines and of course, then begin that as a commissioned officer after he graduated from A&M. So that’s when Desert Storm was going on. He was a group leader, responsible for a lot of men and therefore, responsible for killing a lot of people, most of whom were probably Muslim. And one day after his troops had killed a number of their troops, the Iraqi troop leader dropped his gun started walking towards Steve and said, “May I pray over my dead?” through an interpreter and so, through the interpreter Steve responded, “Yes” dropped his gun and said “May I join you?” So the two of them, walked over together. The Muslim person prayed, of course in Arabic. Steve did not understand one word of the language. But it so touched his heart that he said it was the most beautiful prayer he had ever heard. And he left that setting, committed to the belief that people who can pray together ought not to be killing one another. So he came back then and went to seminary and is now at the Catholic Church teaching in a school in Chicago. So that story had really touched all of us when he came home with a very good case of PTSD on his own, and shared that story. So back to your question; 9/11 happened. I was sitting home in the floor of the house that we lived in before this one, packing, watching the two towers go down. And commentators saying this will change world history and I was thinking, “Oh no, two planes crashing into a big building is not going to change world history. What are they talking about?” But of course it did. And so I just kept stewing about that. So this was in September of 2001— from then through Christmas, I just felt this strong, strong, strong spiritual urging to do something. But as I realized the problem was so huge. More and more did I feel the struggle of what can one little woman in Arlington, Texas do about this big old problem? So, over those months, it finally came to me to try to bring together in this community, women of the three faiths, the three Abrahamic faiths, Judaism, Christianity and Islam to form a friendship and dialogue group where we would simply speak heart to heart with great honesty with one another. That seemed simple enough. I already knew a few people in the Jewish faith and the Muslim faith that I thought I could go to so I did. I went to a Rabbi. I didn’t go to an Imam, I went to a psychiatrist that I know who is Muslim and who has also done a great deal of work with domestic violence. And I thought he would know some women who might be interested in this.

So, sure enough, we found women. I thought if we got six women from each of the three faiths, that would be a good discussion group, six of each. So that was the goal six women from each faith. So that’s what we did. I don’t know how much more detail you want about that right now.

Susan: That is an incredible story. Janice, I missed it when you came and spoke to our group about how this all came into being. I hadn’t actually heard it. And Dawn can tell, I had like…I was waterworks over here. I had tears in my eyes.

Dawn: And I’ve heard it many times and I still get goosebumps every time I hear the story about her son praying with the Muslim leader. That’s just the most beautiful story ever of interfaith spirituality, I think.

Janice: Well, I get goosebumps still every time I tell you. And that tells me more than anything that this whole endeavor has been spirit lead.

Dawn: Yes. And Janice, or how many of those women are still meeting together now? Because when I tell the story, I always say that most of you still meet together. Is that correct?

Janice: Yes, that’s true. Several of the more elderly women have died. Seems like more of the original Jewish women than any. But that leads me to another story. I may be going way off on tangent.

Susan: No, this is perfect.

Janice: Just stop me.

Susan: Not at all.

Janice: But after we had been formed probably three or four years and had become very close, one of the Jewish women had cancer and was dying. And she was home receiving hospice care. And she called me one day and said, “Janice, I’m here alone. I’m really scared. My husband had to go somewhere. Is there anybody in Daughters that could just come sit with me this afternoon?” And I said, “Yes, of course I can find somebody.” I couldn’t do it, but I promised her I would get someone right away. Well, the first person I thought of was a woman in our group who is a retired physician. I thought she would be perfect to be there. It did not dawn on me until after I had made the call to ask her if she could go that she was Muslim because we had become such close friends. I just didn’t think about it. And then it dawned on me, “Oh my goodness, I have just asked a Muslim woman to go help a Jewish woman die.” But I think the lovely part of that is that for those of us who have been together for the long haul, it has truly been transforming. And I can tell you that of those women that I have known so long, I would die for any one of them. You know, it takes a while to develop that kind of love for a person.

Dawn: Yes. And I think that’s the whole key, if I may interject, with our group is getting to know each other as individuals and really caring about each other. And we had a similar story not quite as powerful, but after some of those horrible things were happening in Garland with the people surrounding the Mosque and all that, we were having our meeting one night and one of our young Muslim women posted on our email group. She said, “I’m afraid to drive at night by myself with my hijab.” And she said, “Would anybody be willing to come pick me up?” And she told about what neighborhood she lived in. It just so happened two of our older Jewish ladies lived nearby, and they went and picked her up. And I thought there was a cool story, too.

Janice: Yes, that is another wonderful story.

Dawn: Yes. And it was old and young and two different faiths, and yet, all wanting to get together for a very important meeting about peace and loving each other. That’s what it’s all about.

Janice: Yes, it is.

Susan: I’ll just share a little bit while we’re at it. You know, I found this group two years ago, probably and I’ve been in and out. I’ve been trying to be active. My husband’s travel schedule is a little wonky, and then there’s childcare. But I have just really appreciated…My goal was to go out and meet women of other faiths as well. I wanted to have a better understanding of people in general, and I was seeking that out. And someone in our church told me about it and introduced me to Dawn at the time. And I just, you know, I grew up in a small town in South Carolina, and the only Jewish person I knew was my orthodontist and then I had a Jewish professor in college, and I never even really thought anything about it. Coming from the Christian faith I knew that, you know, the Jewish faith came first and Jesus was Jewish and yada, yada ,yada, and there was no issue there for me at all. No problem. I had never met a true Muslim like a practicing Muslim. I had met other people who were Muslim, but I had never met a true practicing Muslim in their faith. And I have learned so much about just how beautiful the faith is, and just how close to Christianity it really is and how we really did all come. It’s not a joke. We all really came from the same background and just getting to know people on an individual basis, like you said, and hearing their stories. You know, one of my greatest friends that I have from this group at this point is from Syria. And she hasn’t been here in the states that long and just—and I’m not going to tell her story for her because I hope she’ll come on the podcast and tell it herself.

Dawn: Are you talking about our Jewish Christian Muslim.

Susan: Yes.

Dawn: That’s how she introduces herself, “I’m a Jewish Christian Muslim.”

Susan: Yeah, because she really understands like that Judaism came first, Christianity came second, and then the Islam came third. And it just is so interesting to me to have that true friendship and to share with other people. You just have to get to know each other on an individual basis, and you can’t believe all the other crazy stuff you hear people say.

Dawn: A lot of ignorance out there.

Susan: Yeah, absolutely.

Dawn: One of my greatest things I’ve learned I really didn’t have any Jewish or Muslim friends. So I’ve learned a lot about both faiths, but I thought I would be closer to the Jewish women, as far as you know, we share the same Old Testament, which of course, is their Hebrew Bible. But the thing that really amazed me was our Muslim sisters believe in all the miracles of Jesus, they love Jesus, they believe in the Second Coming. I mean, we share so much there. Now, granted, our details get very different but there’s so much shared. And that’s I think another big point of our group is we focus on what we share, not the differences. And as far as the differences go, when we hear the stories, I think they’re fascinating, but sometimes it’s like, “Wow, that’s just really interesting how they look at that. That’s their perspective. But here’s my perspective.” And it’s okay, we don’t have to be right or wrong. I feel like we all have a little piece of the truth maybe, and when we get to heaven, maybe the whole puzzle will be put together and there’ll be three colors on the puzzle that all go together. That’s kind of how I look at it.

Janice: I think about that a lot, too. I don’t know if you’ve read the Dalai Lama’s most recent book about compassion, that he goes even beyond these three Abrahamic faiths to others pointing out that every single major religion in the world has language very similar to the Golden Rule.

Dawn: Yes.

Janice: And the point is that if all the faiths could put a lot of emphasis on that, the differences are fine. You know, there are many ways to God, his perspective is really we all pretty much become what our parents were. That’s the truth of the matter.

Dawn: Or rebel against it completely and go the other direction.

Janice: That’s right, either follow or wildly rebel. But I think that it’s really powerful, that if we can come to love one another as ourselves, but even going beyond that to genuine compassion, which is more than ourselves, the reaching out beyond two way more than our love for ourselves. My goodness, the world would be totally changed.

Dawn: Yes. And you know, another thing I think that’s really made me aware of being a part of Daughters of Abraham is, you know how we talk about white privilege, I think there’s also something like Christian privilege. Where growing up in a dominant Christian society, we don’t realize sometimes, especially the ones that proselytize how much harm we’ve done. I remember after one of my first Daughters of Abraham meetings, walking out and there was a Jewish women and a Muslim lady talking, and they were both talking about how their children were being bullied in school by Christians, you know, by people saying, if you haven’t taken Jesus as your savior, you’re going to hell. And it was bullying. And you know, to me, the ugliest part of Christianity is when we try to force it on people and, you know, feel like we’re right and they’re wrong. And that never works. Jesus never did that.

Janice: Jesus certainly didn’t do that. That’s exactly what I was going to add, Dawn. I mean, he laid things out there and you take it, fine, or you don’t, fine. That’s just the way he walked every day. The only people he really got mad at were the people inside the faith who were cutting other people out.

Dawn: Right, the judgmental ones.

Janice: Yeah.

Dawn: And it’s such a big relief when you realize that as Christian, you do not have to judge people. You’re just called to love people. That’s it—right there.

Janice: Yeah.

Susan: And trust me, I did a whole episode on deconstruction about this. And I’ve gotten some feedback myself that has been, “I’m not so sure you’re a real Christian.” So Christians, even bully people who consider themselves to be Christians because we don’t believe things exactly how they believe them. So yeah, we all have….We could work on as a faith in general, I think. Tell me a little bit about how Daughters of Abraham, this specific group is still just in Texas. Is that correct? Or have we spread out outside the state at this point?

Dawn: That’s a good question.

Janice: Yes. It’s a very interesting question because we the answer is we don’t know.

Dawn: Yes, that’s what I was going to say.

Janice: We did not form a 501 C3 nonprofit profit deal with the IRS because that requires boards, which are very vertical. There are a lot of things about that that just don’t feel right. We feel very circular, very democratic, very equal as we meet together. So in that way, we don’t have real policies and guidelines that anybody has to follow. Our primary general rule is that we do not proselytize. So you can share whatever you want to share from your own personal faith perspective. But if it moves into trying to convince others that yours is the best, you know, that’s a no, no. And then the other one is that we steer clear of political discussion. But that is sometimes very, very difficult because right now, with so much painful stuff going on in the world, it’s very difficult to keep that totally removed. So I can’t say that we’re 100% successful at that but we also don’t pound each other about political parties either, which is just that the issues might come up sometimes.

Dawn: Right. And I was…

Janice: So…

Dawn: All right, go ahead.

Janice: I’m sorry, Dawn. So we do know for sure that other groups have formed throughout the country, mainly from women who had been a part of this group and then move somewhere else and start a group there. We’ve even got people doing it down in Mexico. We had two nuns come up from Mexico to do some writing about us a year or so ago. And then they went back and started a group themselves. So we just don’t know.

Dawn: I was going to add that we tell people all the time, there’s a place on our website where people who want to start a group can go and read about how we did it so that they can follow the same pattern we did, which is basically just start off with a Christian, a Jewish and Muslim coordinator, who then work within each faith to recruit people and to get people to meetings, but we’ve never said, “Hey, if you do start one of those groups, let us know.” Maybe we should do that because we’ve had lots of inquiries, and we’ve sent them to our website. So it’s very possible there could be a lot of groups we don’t even know about.

Susan: And I’ll make sure to link all of this in the show notes on our website so anybody who’s listening who is interested in in doing that will be able to just click the button and head on over, for sure.

Janice: Yeah, it’s a simple little click on the website. It’s just a two-page document.

Susan: Great. I don’t know that I’ve ever actually seen the document so I will have check that out myself. Tell me…because I did not…Janice, I personally—and Dawn I’m not sure about you—I did not grow up in a family that was very open at all, actually. And so me doing this, I’ve been asked a lot of questions. And I’ve asked a lot of questions of myself, right, like, okay, what do you really believe? And does it really matter? And all those types of questions. So tell me, what has that…Dawn, maybe you can speak to this a little more. How was your background? Like, were you open to this and when other people hear that you’re involved in interfaith work, how do you explain that to people?

Dawn: That’s a good question because we go around and we talked to a lot of different groups. We’ll take a representative from each faith. We talk to a lot of Sunday school classes. It’s mostly been Christians that we’ve gone out and talk to in the Dallas group. But I we’re asked that a lot. And I was raised by a Methodist pastor, and I’m a Methodist pastor myself. So the Methodist Church is pretty open—I know Janice would say the same thing about Disciples of Christ—to interfaith dialogue. And so I was actually raised with a very open understanding, especially my dad was one of the first pastors in Kansas City to integrate his church, for instance. So we were raised to respect all people and so it was a pretty natural fit for me. People will ask me, “Now, doesn’t it water down your Christian faith when you go and you listen to these other people with these beliefs that are in…” You know, they’re in conflict sometimes and let’s just be honest about it. We do have things we disagree on. But my response is always “I think it deepens my faith because I think a questioned faith is the deepest faith.” If you never question your faith, and you just take everything that you’ve been told, and you read the Bible literally and you don’t ask questions so you don’t use your brain…God gave us the brain for a reason. I think I learned so much like for my Jewish sisters, I’ve learned so much about respecting our ancestors and traditions. And there’s so many wonderful things they do with grief, for instance. So Janice, I hope you’ll tell your story, if you’re up to it about what you’ve learned from the others about how it affected you and you’re going through the loss of Dick, and from the Muslim sisters. I’ve learned so much also about devotion, like they pray five times a day. So I’ll tell my Christian friends that are big into proselytizing, “Well, first thing if you’re going to proselytize a Muslim, you better be praying five times a day because they’re not going to want to be less spiritual.” So we learn a lot from each other. And I think my Jewish and Muslim friends, when we go out and talk, they say the same thing. They say they’re a better Muslim for having known Jewish and Christian people and vice versa. So that would be my answer to that.

Janice: If you want, I can share the story that Dawn mentioned a while ago. I don’t know how much time we have. 

Dawn: Oh, but it’s so beautiful, Janice.

Janice: Okay, well here we go. One of the things that I learned is that we Christians are just about the only faith that embalm bodies and waxes them all up and paint some up and people go by and stare at them. We’ve been kind of weird to me anyway, but what we learned within the Jewish faith and the Muslim faith, bodies are treated with respect, which means that none of that stuff is done to them. Now, in Reform Judaism, it may very well be because Reform Jews really operate more modernly than conservative or Orthodox Jews. But for many Jews and literally all Muslims, the body is respected. It is washed by people in the faith after the death in clear water. It is wrapped in white muslin or cotton wrappings or in Judaism, it’s more like a pantsuit that that does not have buttons, but it’s tied on and the person is put in a casket. And in Judaism, they are buried with the casket, which is to be very plain, generally wooden. The notion of dust to dust, and it’s buried within 24 to 48 hours. In Islam, it’s the very same thing, except that Mosques have just one casket generally, and it’s used over and over again. So after the body is prepared, it’s placed in that casket until the prayer services is held for the body again, as soon as possible. It’s taken to the cemetery in that casket, and then it’s taken out and laid in the soil with the face looking toward Mecca. And then it’s covered in the dirt with out without a casket or a vault or anything. So there was something about that process that just felt so authentic to me. So my husband died just a little over a year ago, real strong, healthy guy who played golf every day, and he got bitten by a mosquito that was carrying West Nile virus and died a little more then a week later. So, the hospital was great. They let me lay in the bed with him most of that last two or three days and so forth. And when he died, I said to the nurse, “I want to be the one to wash him and do everything that needs to be done before he goes to the funeral home.” And she said, “Oh, okay.” And was really very, very lovely about allowing me to do that. And I will tell you, I believe that had more to do with my healing than most anything. I washed every single inch of his body, washed his hair. His beard had been growing while he was in the hospital, so he looked really gnarly, shaved him, got all those hairs off, clipped the little nose hairs. You know how they have little hairs hanging out of their ears noses so I got them and then I said, “I really think we should put some lotion on him before we wrap him up,” and she said, “Well, let me go see what I can find. I don’t know what we have right here.” So here she comes back with a bottle of Victoria Secret lotion that she got from somebody

Dawn: I think Dick was okay with that, knowing Dick.

Janice: I can just imagine a big old smile of his. If a body could have smiled, I’m sure he would have. I’m sure his spirit did.  So anyway, we got him already and I kissed him goodbye. And it was not a hard thing to do. And I think it was not hard because I had had that wonderful opportunity of doing every single thing I could do for his body as long as I could do it and I would not have ever thought of that of that had it not been for learning it from our Jewish and Muslim sisters.

Dawn: It is so beautiful. Thank you.

Susan: That is beautiful story. Wow.

Janice: We did bury him in a casket.

Dawn: But the point was you got that beautiful ritual from our interfaith friends.

Janice: Yeah, never in a million years would I have thought about that otherwise?

Dawn: How intimate and loving.

Susan: That is a beautiful place to end, isn’t it? Janice, thank you so much for sharing with us today, and Dawn for being here. I just really appreciate it. This has meant so much to me. Wow, I didn’t know what to expect but I’m all over the place right now. And I tried to normally hold it together a little better during these episodes in these conversations. For those of us who are local to the DFW area, I will have everything listed on our website. And I would just encourage you to reach out and join one of these groups. It is meant so much to my life to get to know people from other backgrounds, and Janice and Dawn…Dawn is our representative in Dallas. I don’t know if I actually talked about that.

Dawn: I should say I’m the Christian coordinator. We also have a Jewish, and we have co-coordinators for the Muslim faith, which is kind of a cool idea. I’m thinking about trying to get a Christian co-coordinator also.

Susan: Yeah, that way you don’t have to do it all, right?

Dawn: That’s right. That’s kind of brilliant up them.

Susan: Oh, and one thing I didn’t mean to mention, I don’t think we talked about this. And maybe this is a good point, since we’re ending to kind of go over I’d love to share our guidelines, and then maybe we can end with our prayer.

Dawn: Sure.

Susan: And I was going to say one other thing…

Dawn: And also mentioned how many groups we have. It’s not just Dallas.

Susan: Yeah, absolutely.Go ahead, Dawn.

Dawn: And Janice, correct me if I’m wrong. I’m reading off for the flyer. We have a morning Arlington Fort Worth group, which I believe is your group, right, Janice?

Janice: Yes.

Dawn: We have an evening Fort Worth group and evening Northeast Tarrant County group. Of course, our evening Dallas group. We have recently had a Denton group startup. So we’ll have that info on the website. And we also have Sons of Abraham. So don’t let us forget to mention that. There’s sons of Abraham both mid cities and Dallas, I believe, right, Janice?

Janice: Yes.

Dawn: So that’s pretty darn cool.

Susan: Yeah, it really is. It’s nice to have the men join us although they aren’t really joining us.

Dawn: Yes.

Janice: I would like to add in that vein, a lot of people don’t realize that Allah is just the Arabic word for God.

Dawn: Right.

Janice: Allah is not somebody different right. So Muslims use the word Allah, Jews use Adonai or other words we use God.

Susan: And Adonai is also in the Bible.

Dawn: The Christian Bible.

Susan: The Christian Bible. Yeah, that’s a good point. Very good point.

Dawn: And the Torah.

Susan: Yes.

Janice: In most of our meeting, the Jewish and Muslim women just say God.

Dawn: Oh, do they? Okay.

Janice: At least in our group, they do. I mean, they don’t have an aversion to using the word God because it is all the same God; it’s just three different names.

Dawn: Right.

Janice: Same God. So you usually hear some of all three.

Dawn: Well, I do agree it would be kind of cool if we said all three when we read it together.

All: Our God, the soul that you have implanted within us is pure. You created and formed it, breathed it into us and sustain it each and every day. So long as we have life, we will be grateful to you, Adonai, God, Allah. Our God and the God of our mother and father, creator of all life, sustainer of every human spirit, blessed are you, Adonai, God, Allah in whose hands are the souls of all life, and in the spirits of all flesh.

Outro: Thanks so much for joining me today. I know today’s conversation covered up a lot of hard topics, war, death, interfaith work. I would really love to hear your feedback or any questions you might have. I have really enjoyed being a part of Daughters of Abraham because it has given me the opportunity to get to know my sisters of different faiths on a whole new level. It has also given me the space to ask questions where I might often feel uncomfortable. So often when we can ask questions, we can dispel myths, rumors, and things we do not understand. My heart aches so often when I see people harmed because of their faith, the language they speak, or the color of their skin. It’s so oftentimes comes from a place of misguided information. Martin Luther King once said, “Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that.” So often, once you shine a light on things you do not understand. It isn’t so scary. Is it hard? Sure, but we can do hard things. As women, as leaders in our communities, as moms, we can share our knowledge with our friends, spouses, and children. It starts with each one of us to drive out hate. Truly loving our neighbor will do just that. I’ll see you soon.